A Tough Fourth

Just to be clear...you were ok with Clinton pardoning his Whitewater friends, right? Yeah, that's what I thought. Another fucking politcal hack who only wraps himself in the flag when his fucking party is out of power. It's ok when the Dems do it, but if Republicans do it then suddenly you weep for your country. How fucking sick. Be a real patriot and criticize corruption and wrongdoing regardless of the political affiliation.

I take solace in un-subscribing from your liberal BS. "Hey everyone, instead of celebrating our country's independence I'm going to bitch and complain and claim if you don't do do the same your not a patriot and you hate America"

Harry, This is one reason I just made my MSN Messenger signature "Liberals Worst Day." As someone just pointed out you're OK with Clinton pardoning his Whitewater friends (who comitted real crimes). If you are concerned with national security, then worry about Clinton admin's Berger who got away scott free with stealing national security documents and covering up Clinton's 3 misses of Bin Laden!

Well interesting that you point out how corrupt the Republicans are, and grap comfort in the Democratic party. Perhaps you should review the 400+ pardons that Clinton granted before he left office (http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm). I found it especially interesting that one of the pardons was for someone who was convicted of Bank Robbery (Charles Patrick Murrin C. D. Calif. 1988 Bank robbery, 18 U.S.C. § 2113(a)). As for Scooter Libby, remember that he was convicted for "not remembering something", not bank robbery. Perhaps the hipocracy is just a little too thick...

Okay, I just re-read your thread and I can't figure out why you haven't already moved to the Peoples Republic of Canada. You have seemed to forget that Congress' approval rating of 29% (http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27589). This rating is with your so called 'landslide Democratic victory'... As for the upcoming elections, I am sure that without a miracle Hillary will become President. I can only imagine the horror of having Pelosi and Clinton running this country. Get ready to pay for amnesty, socialized health care, and whatever else Hillary wants to push through while she is in power.

The BS about how many people Clinton pardoned is a red herring for many reasons, but mainly for these: 1) Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence has nothing to do with the facts of the case and everything to do with cronyism and that Libby was taking the fall for Cheney/Bush on this matter. 2) Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence goes against his OWN stated policies for dealing with pardons and commutation requests. 3) Bush has pardoned/commuted almost no one during his time as our President. This futher illustrates how far outside of normal operation he was willing to go to let his friend off the hook. 4) You keep bringing up Clinton. For this exact same crime, Clinton was impeached, and was kicked off the bar. So the same people who screamed from the rafters that perjury was enough of a crime to remove the president, are now the same people who say it isn't enough of a crime to spend 1 day in jail. 5) Clinton's impeachment was based on a civil case where he lied about his personal life and affairs. Libby leaked the name of an undercover operative (later deemed NOT a crime because Bush/Cheney authorized it), but then lied to cover up his, and Cheney's involvement. 6) The idea that Scooter got 2 years in jail because he "forgot some stuff" is ludicrous. Not only was the (conservative) prosecutor absolutely convinced that Libby intentionally lied in an effort to obstuct justice. When presented with the evidence the jury had no problem coming to a unanimous guilty verdict, and the Judge agreed with them when he imposed the sentence. Or are you going to defend Clinton because he "forgot some stuff". Lame! 7) Most importantly, the "B-b-b-but Clinton..." defense is stupid. If Clinton did something shady, that doesn't mean it's fine and dandy for a Republican to do the same, EXPICALLY after chastising him for years on the topic.

You can feel free to think it's a red herring but I beleive we are talking apples to apples... Okay, lets deal with these one at a time... 1.) Bush has stated that he beleived the punishment was excessive - the same reason given by Bill Clinton. So Bill thinks that prison is excessive for a bank robber and no one complains about that, but Bush thinks that libby's punishment for lying is excessive and now all of a sudden it's outrageous. Nice. 2.) The Democrats have tried to pin Bush down to saying that he will hold anyone accountable for their crimes. That's a nice strategy to use to try and force the President to not be able to do 'what he believes' is the right thing. Again, pardons are given to the president for his discression. If you don't like right, or think that Presidents abuse it then vote to change that right. The difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans just scratch their head and say whatever, where as the Democrats cry and moan about it. 3.) You call releasing Libby from 30 months as "off the hook" but forget to mention the remaining fines and probation that Libby is still required to account for. I disagree that Libby is off the hook. 4.) I keep bringing up Clinton exactly because of the Democrats double standard. All during the impeachment trials all I ever heard was how Clinton didn't do anything wrong. Even if I can get over the fact that he disgraced the office by getting a B-job by an intern in the Oval Office, I still can't get past the video of Clinton saying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". So yes, he was impeached for lying to the court, and should have REMOVED HIMSELF as President. In the end it was never even discussed to have Clinton spend 1 day in jail for the same crime you seem to think Libby should spend 30 months in jail for committing. 5.) This is the best part of the story. An invistigation is created to look into a possible crime. Testimony is taken for what is later discovered to be not a crime. Then someone is convicted for lying about something during the testimony of the "non-crime". That process happens over and over by both parties in an effort to catch anyone saying something that wasn't true. The whole thing is a joke, on both sides. 6.) Libby was convicted of lying but always maintained that he didn't recall what was said in his conversations: "The prosecution alleges that Libby deliberately misled FBI agents and a grand jury about several conversations he had with journalists then. Defense lawyers contend their client was too busy to recall the details of those conversations." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011600145.html). That is the basis of my comment that he "forgot some stuff". Clinton would have a hard time convincing me that he didn't remember having sexual relations with Monica when he spoke directly to me (the public) on the television. 7.) This whole discussion is more about the hiprocracy of the Democrats and not that Libby was wrongly convicted. In the end it doesn't matter because Bush had every right to pardon Libby for any reason he saw fit. Again, if you don't like it then you should try and change the law, not cry about how corrupt this administration is, and not mention how corrupt the Clinton administration was. My impression of all politicians is that they are basically untrustworthy, both Republicans and Democrats. Something about absolute power corrupting absolutely. But even with that said I get sick and tired of hearing about 'how unfathomably corrupt' this administration is from the Democrats. It's like the Democrats spent the Clinton times with their heads in the sand... Case in point: - http://prorev.com/hillary.htm - http://www.realchange.org/clinton.htm - http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Clinton_Scandals/index.html